Gary King  (charlesgaryking @t aol.com) of Toronto, Canada says:  I have located William Henry King and Eliza [Jones] in the 1881 Census living at 13 Currie St. in Hertford with eight of their children. However, I am lead to believe that they may have had as many as fourteen children. Their oldest children were possibly born in Hatfield and Watford between 1850 and 1860. If you can  suggest a way to discover these other children it would be greatly appreciated.

In order to discuss your question in terms which will be meaningful to other people looking in I summarise the 1881 census entry below:

William KING	55	Birmingham, Warwickshire	Head	Life Assurance Agent
Eliza KING	49	Maidstone, Kent	Wife
Edward KING	22	Watford	Son	General Lab
George KING	16	Watford	Son	Baker
Henry KING	15	Watford	Son	Drapers Messenger
Alfred KING	13	Hatfield	Son	Scholar
Frederick KING	11	Hatfield	Son	Scholar
Frank KING	9	Hertford	Son	Scholar
Emily KING	6	Hertford	Daur	Scholar
Ernest KING	4	Hertford	Son	Scholar

The initial search should be comparatively straight forward, using information available (in many cases by prior arrangement only) at your nearest genealogical library which may well be a LDS Family History Centre (for address see familysearch) or, in the case of birth certificates,  by ordering online from HALS. The British Vital Records CD indexes many Hertfordshire parish registers from the 19th century (but is far from comprehensive) and the IGI at familysearch may have a few entries - but only contains a tiny percentage of the possible entries for the period you are interested in.

To get you started I have looked on the British Vital Records Index for Hertford baptisms to parents called William and Eliza King for the period you are interested:

Child	Father	Mother	Born	Baptised	Baptised at
Amos	William	Eliza	23 May 1857	25 Sept 1859	St Andrew's, Watford
George	William Higgins	Elizabeth	25 June 1861	20 Mar 1870	St Mary's, Watford
Alice Howard	William Harry	Eliza	26 Feb 1861	22 Sept 1861	St Andrew's, Watford
Eliza Ann	William Harry	Eliza	24 Dec 1862	17 Dec 1863	St Andrew's, Watford
George Sidney	William	Eliza	10 Oct 1864	10 Mar 1865	St Andrew's, Watford
Minnie	William Egins	Elizabeth	4 Feb 1865	22 Sept 1872	St Mary's, Watford
Henry David	William	Eliza	30 Oct 1865	3 Jun 1866	St Andrew's, Watford
Arthur	William Egins	Elizabeth	5 Mar 1867	22 Sept 1872	St Mary's, Watford
William Walter	William	Eliza		10 May 1868	Leverstock Green
Ernest	William	Eliza		14 Dec 1873	Leverstock Green
Alice Mary	William	Eliza	28 Sept 1881	13 Nov 1881	Leverstock Green

You always have to be careful (see Right Name, Wrong Body) but it looks as if there were three families - William (Harry) and Eliza King having their children baptised at St Andrew's, Watford; William Higgins/Egins and Elizabeth King having their children baptised at St Mary's,  Watford; and William and Eliza King at Leverstock Green a few miles to the north.

The first of these families appears to be yours and suggests three new names, Amos, Alice Howard and Eliza Ann King. Amos may not be the oldest as the index only covers St Andrew's baptisms between 1857 and 1875. It is not clear whether any of these extra children died in infancy or whether they were still alive and possibly married in 1881 and recorded on the CD. As we know the church the parents used when in Watford it would be a good idea to look at the microfilm of the burial register as well as the baptismal register.

The baptisms do not include Edward. A re-examination of the BVRI produces the following entry:

Edward James

William

Harriet

3 Mar 1859

25 Sept 1859

St Andrew's, Watford

This could well be him - but without checking further it is not clear whether it is an error in the BVRI indexing, or an error in the original register, or whether William was married to Eliza who died, Harriet who died, and then another Eliza. Problems such as this are one of the reasons why you should always check the parish register microfilms including the burial register.

Your immediate move would be to get the birth certificate for Alice Howard King - as it will undoubtedly give a precise address to enable you to rapidly find the house in the 1861 census microfilm - which should confirm (and possibly extend) the list of older children. To fill in and confirm details it could well be worth looking at microfilms of the parish registers for Hatfield and Hertford and the 1871 census (for Hatfield or Hertford?).

April 2001

Clive Blackaby (clive @t blackaby.orangehome.co.uk writes: The 5 children christened by William and Eliza King at St Andrew's in Watford are almost certainly 5 of my Grandfather's 12 siblings.

Amos appears on the 1881 Census in Grimsby (the address matches that in his will), and gives his date and place of birth as 1857 "Watford, Kent", which does not exist, as far as I can tell. He may have been born in Maidstone, Kent, perhaps just as the family were about to move to Watford Hertfordshire. (This might explain the gap between his birth and his christening.) Whether this was an error in transcription, or a deliberate bit of private rebellion against the authorities we may never know - but by reputation ..

There were two older children, Louisa Mary Anne, and William Henry, both born in Maidstone.

I would be surprised if their fourth child Edward b 1859 i.e. after Amos, was not also christened at St. Andrews, Watford I suspect there is a clerical error here, and that William + Harriet is in error for William Harry. One of these days I may get around to getting a look at a copy of the original register.

Two further children were born in Hatfield (Gary King's Grandfather Alfred in 1867, and Frederick in 1870)

Then three more in Hertford, Frank (1872), Emily (1875), and my finally my Grandfather Ernest Charles (not the same one as on your list in Leverstock Green) in 1876. I suspect that they would have been christened at All Saints in Hertford.

Alfred and Frank married and emigrated to Canada, Henry emigrated to Australia

Ernest married Frank's Sister-in-law, my Grandmother.

Thank you for the clear explanation of this large family.

August 2002

Clive Blackaby (clive @t blackaby.orangehome.co.uk has provided an update: You will recall that my second cousin Gary King wrote to you about William Henry King and Eliza Jones, and their 13 children. Between us we since have found a great deal more about them, and located some other family members.

Gary has also obtained all 13 birth certificates. It appears that W.H.K. moved from Hatfield (where he was a Railway Policeman) in about 1871, to become keeper at Hertford Gaol. I wondered if you may know where I might find any record of his time there? (The Railway Police have no records from his time with them)

I am not certain where the administrative records for Hertford Goal would be - but I am sure that HALS could advise you on that one. However the fact that you say he was a keeper at Hertford Goal in the 1870's  is a puzzle. A new County prison was built at St Albans in 1866 to replace the former County prison at Hertford - which  then closed. Definitely, at the time of the 1881 census 72 houses were being built on the site of the old goal, and the only prison warders listed in Hertford were retired pensioners. If William Henry King was a keeper at Hertford Prison I would have expected this to be before 1866 - which is incompatible with other information you have provided. Some clarification, together with sources, seems to be needed.

It may be that the Hertford Goal continued to operate after the new prison at St Albans was opened. The 1870 and 1874 Post Office Directories could probably provide a quick answer - as if the Hertford Goal was still open it should be listed. Unfortunately the only copies I have easy access to from the relevant period are the 1866 and 1882.

November 2002

There is another King in Hertford query - KING, Hertford, early 19th century - but no obvious connection.

May 2011

Clive Blackaby (clive @t blackaby.orangehome.co.uk) of Manchester reports that there were 79 inmates still in the County Prison at Hertford on the 1871 census, and 11 staff including wives etc. in residence. RG10 /1373/150/1 - 152/5 and that William's occupation on 1871 census is Prison Warder. RG10; Piece: 1372; Folio: 115; Page: 31.

William was a prison warder living in Currie Road, St John, Hertford with his wife and 9 children. The youngest 8 had been born in Hertfordshire - six in Watford and only the youngest, aged 1 in Hertford. The 1861 census showed that hen was then a railway policemen, living at Station Buildings, Railway Terrace, Watford.

If you can add to the information given above tell me.