Karen Cooper (Lyn1427 @t hotmail.com) of Saskatoon Canada says  My grandfather, Thomas Henry Phipps, born September 5, 1884 in Broxbourne.  Came to Canada in 1905.  It was hinted at that he left England rather suddenly and under mysterious circumstances. I am told his siblings were Alfred (b. 1874), William (b. 1872), Mark (b. 1864), Hanna, Margaret, Nance, Charlotte (b. 1870), Maggie, Rosa, Minnie (b. 1876), Emily (b. 1879) and Ernest (b. 1880).  I believe his father's name was John (b. 1829?) and his mother's name was possibly Elizabeth (b. 1840?).  I would like to find living relatives in Hertfordshire to help me fill in my family tree. Any help would be much appreciated.  .

You seem uncertain as to whether what you say is correct - and I am wondering how much information you know from reliable family sources, and how much you may have been told by others. Please do not feel offended if I am wrong but I feel I should address the apparent uncertainty.

A quick check shows three Phipps families in Broxbourne in the 1881 census:

Park Lane, Broxbourne

John PHIPPS	Head	51	Engine Driver	Broxbourne
Elizabeth PHIPPS	Wife	40		Broxbourne
Mark PHIPPS	Son	17	Ag Lab	Broxbourne
Charlotte PHIPPS	Daur	11	Scholar	Broxbourne
William J. PHIPPS	Son	9	Scholar	Broxbourne
Alfred PHIPPS	Son	7	Scholar	Broxbourne
Minnie PHIPPS	Daur	5	Scholar	Broxbourne
Emily M. PHIPPS	Daur	2		Broxbourne
Ernest C. PHIPPS	Son	7 m		Broxbourne

(An engine driver may worked on the railway, or he may have driven one of the many stationary steam engines which were common at the time .)

Broxbourne Common, Broxbourne

Joseph PHIPPS	Head	M	58	Broxbourne	Wood Laborer (Woodman)
Sarah PHIPPS	Wife	M	58	Broxbourne
Eliza J. PHIPPS	Daur	U	29	Broxbourne	Charwoman
Daniel PHIPPS	Son	U	27	Broxbourne	Woodman
Charles J. PHIPPS	Son	U	24	Broxbourne
Janet P. PHIPPS	Daur	U	20	Broxbourne	Charwoman
William HORNET	Adopted Son		14		Scholar

Hoddesdon Lord St, Broxbourne

Mary Ann PHIPPS	Head, Widow	53	Needlewoman	Hoddesdon
James PHIPPS	Grand Son	2		St Neots, Hunts
Emma PHIPPS	Grand Daur	1 m		Camberwell, Surrey

As your grandfather was born in September 1884 he may have been the son of someone listed above. The possibilities are: (a) John & Elizabeth Phipps; (b) Mark Phipps - now married; (c) Daniel Phipps - now married; (d) Charles Phipps - now married (e) brother of James and Emma Phipps; (f) illegitimate son of Eliza Phipps; (g) illegitimate son of Janet Phipps; or (h) his parents to be not in Broxbourne on the night of the 1881 census; or (i) his reason for leaving England occasioned a change of name (see What did your Ancestor call himself).

You appear to have information from the first family plus five other names - Hanna, Margaret, Nance, Maggie and Rosa - which don't fit. If you know from family sources that your father had uncles Mark, William, Alfred and Ernest and Aunts Charlotte, Minnie and Emily it is very likely that this is the right family. However if the only reason you mentioned these names is that someone with a 1881 census CD (and little understanding of genealogy) suggested it was the family you should look at the other possibilities.

The best way to identify your grandfather's parents (and then his siblings and any descendants) is to buy Thomas Henry Phipps' birth certificate from HALS. Once the online 1901 census is working you may be able to locate him living with his parents. Once you have done this I may be able to help you further - so let me know how you get on.

April 2002

Karen Cooper (Lyn1427 @t hotmail.com) says . Further to my previous message regarding Thomas Phipps.  I received his birth certificate and he is indeed the son of John Phipps and Elizabeth Harknett.  I have ordered the 1891 microfiche to check further for his exact siblings.

Here is my new question  I ordered and received the marriage certificate for John Phipps and Elizabeth Harknett.  It states that at the time of marriage Elizabeth's residence was Cold Hall Farm.  The Registrar attached a note to the marriage certificate advising that Cold Hall still exists today.  I am trying to find out information on Cold Hall Farm.  Can you help?  Thank you.

Some key information is readily available online. If you visit Multimap and type in the house name of Cold Hall and the town name of Broxbourne you will be shown a map with a circle where the house is (on the north side of White Stubbs Lane, opposite the junction with Church Lane, and not far from Broxbournebury School. It may even come up with a post code - so you should have no difficulty in contacting the present occupant.

Once you know where it is from the modern map you should be able to find it as it was in about 1883 on old maps. In addition, looking for "Cold Hall" and "Broxbourne" on a general search engine such as www.google.co.uk  produces a reference showing that it was close to the line of an old Roman Road.

The 1881 census shows two households at Cold Harbour, Broxbournebury, and there are several Hacknett households in the Broxbourne area.

August 2007

Susan Lawrence nee Phipps (salientejohn @t yahoo.co.uk), of Spain, writes: My grandfather and Thomas Henry Phipps were cousins. My grandfather was William Phipps 1874-1961 and his parents were William and Zillah nee Gardner. Zillah came from Great Munden, Herts. Her parents were William Gardner and Martha nee Harknett.

My great grandfather William Phipps's parents were William Phipps b1793 and Martha nee Bull b 1802 d 1878. Martha also came from Great Munden d and her parents were Daniel Bull and Elizabeth nee Allum.

William Phipps and Martha married on the 25th January 1822. They had 8 children: Sarah and Joseph b 1824; Daniel b 1826; Mary b 1827; John [Karen's g grandfather] b 1830; William [my gggrandfather]; Philadelphia b 1839 and Mary Ann b 1850 (I suspect she was Mary's daughter).

William and John's grandparents were James b 1759 and Elizabeth nee Lucas b 1755, who married on the 30th June 1787. Elizabeth Lucas also came from Great Munden and her parents were John and Sarah.

This is as far as I have got. The Phipps family were mainly woodsmen they came from Goose Green a place that is in Broxbourne Woods between Lord St, Hoddesdon and Brickendon. My grandfather still cut down trees with an axe until he was nearly 80. They were hard men and lived to good ages. They were also expert poachers of fish and game [no shortage of meat in our house].

Karen will be interested to know that she has many relatives still living in the area.   

Thanks for the valuable additional information, which I have forwarded to Karen. I have also added a detail from Drury and Andrews' Map of Hertfordshire of 1766, which shows Goose Green surrounded by woodland.

Page updated August 2007